COVID booster shot

[PopsNole]

The natural immunity has the potential to last much longer than the vaccination. Don't jab people for the sake of jabbing people or because it is easier to track and trace. Facts should be shared 100% objective and compare natural and triggered immunity. Additionally, the vaccines with mRNA technology haven't been in circulation long enough to assess if there are any long term negative effects. For some the risks do not outweigh the benefits at this time. God designed us to survive with natural immunity and instinct to endure as a species, because we are created in his image.

Lol. We’ve gone from vaccines are a god send saving millions of lives after thousands of years of deaths from viruses and bacteria constantly to “god designed us to survive with natural immunity.” All those natural immunity is better studies say that you should still get the vaccine. Also, to get natural immunity you have to get sick with Covid.

There is nothing unsafe about a mRNA vaccine. No it does not alter any one’s mRNA or DNA.

 

[Dhersh]

The natural immunity has the potential to last much longer than the vaccination. Don't jab people for the sake of jabbing people or because it is easier to track and trace. Facts should be shared 100% objective and compare natural and triggered immunity. Additionally, the vaccines with mRNA technology haven't been in circulation long enough to assess if there are any long term negative effects. For some the risks do not outweigh the benefits at this time. God designed us to survive with natural immunity and instinct to endure as a species, because we are created in his image.

The effort to study the durability and duration of acquired immunity after infection and compare it to immunity provided by vaccination is ongoing. Its unfair to think that just because you haven't heard about it that there aren't groups of scientists all over the world studying that very thing. The research takes time and its something we will have to wait for.

There is one study so far regarding estimates on duration of immunity after infection. I posted it yesterday, its worth a read. Studies about vaccines are ongoing as well. They have shown that vaccines are effective at protecting individuals from sickness and hospitalization and death for at least six months. More time will be needed to find out how long the vaccine will last, but the only thing that is important is we know that they work and they save lives. You have to pay attention to the science instead of listening to what the media says. Science can be objective. The media isn't the same.

mRNA vaccines have been studied for a very long time. The technology is not as "new" as you are suggesting. You are right there is no way to prove there aren't long term health risks until everyone is fine in 3 years or whatever your timeframe is, but the likelihood of significant adverse effects is very low. We know this. The thing that we can create is immunity, so we created immunity instead of allowing people to die. It is extremely unfair of anyone to criticize that process which has been around for a long time.

 

[THawk]

The natural immunity has the potential to last much longer than the vaccination. Don't jab people for the sake of jabbing people or because it is easier to track and trace. Facts should be shared 100% objective and compare natural and triggered immunity. Additionally, the vaccines with mRNA technology haven't been in circulation long enough to assess if there are any long term negative effects. For some the risks do not outweigh the benefits at this time. God designed us to survive with natural immunity and instinct to endure as a species, because we are created in his image.

Just so I understand your approach: we should all have just waited to get the virus (hope we don't die) and then by herd immunity we beat this thing? Should we have not tried to save some of the population by finding a way to prevent them from dying if they are not lucky enough to survive? I not advocating vaccining(?) everyone especially those who were lucky enough to have gotten the virus and survived. Just trying to understand your big picture view.

 

[Dhersh]

Just so I understand your approach: we should all have just waited to get the virus (hope we don't die) and then by herd immunity we beat this thing? Should we have not tried to save some of the population by finding a way to prevent them from dying if they are not lucky enough to survive? I not advocating vaccining(?) everyone especially those who were lucky enough to have gotten the virus and survived. Just trying to understand your big picture view.

I want to get out ahead of his answer with what I believe to be a more worthwhile discussion. According to the first study of its kind, estimating the duration and durability of immunity against SARS-CoV-2 after infection:

... our results caution that reinfection will become increasingly common as pandemic disease transitions into endemic disease. Our estimated timing of the waning of immunity can facilitate quantitative analyses of all policy decision making about individuals who have recovered from COVID-19 and who might be viewed as temporarily immune to reinfection. In particular, our estimate argues strongly against the claim that a long-standing resolution of the epidemic could arise due to herd immunity from natural infection or that mitigation of the long-term risks of morbidity and mortality can be achieved without vaccination. Relying on herd immunity without widespread vaccination jeopardises millions of lives, entailing high rates of reinfection, morbidity, and death.​

Acquired immunity against all human infecting coronaviruses wanes much quicker than immunity from other diseases like mumps, measles, etc. Compared to all other human infecting coronaviruses, the study referenced above states that immunity from SARS-CoV-2 infection could be "less than half the duration." If predictions from the study are correct, heard immunity via infection would be impossible. Continued vaccinations will likely become common, and they will have major impacts on not just ending the pandemic, but the health and safety of society as a whole.

 

[Dhersh]

Culminating data is beginning to show that a rise in breakthrough cases caused by the delta variant may not be caused by the variant's ability to escape vaccines, which some originally suspected. It is beginning to seem more likely that the reason for the increase in breakthrough cases is primarily due to waning protection against infection, which happened to coincide with the rise of delta. All indications are that vaccines are initially able to fight all VOCs at a very high rate for the first couple of months. By six months, protection from infection has roughly reached levels of the flu vaccine. This seems to support the call for a booster shot, as the boost caused an increase in nAbs that exceeded what we saw after the already highly-effective two-dose schedule. This indicates a better immune response that is more likely to stop breakthrough cases from occurring.

 

[5demayo]

Just so I understand your approach: we should all have just waited to get the virus (hope we don't die) and then by herd immunity we beat this thing? Should we have not tried to save some of the population by finding a way to prevent them from dying if they are not lucky enough to survive? I not advocating vaccining(?) everyone especially those who were lucky enough to have gotten the virus and survived. Just trying to understand your big picture view.

The big picture view is: 1) To get vaccinated if you don't believe in the treatment options are available or don't want to consider other alternatives 2) Don't get vaccinated if you have natural immunity unless you want to virtue signal 3) Test for antibodies as your conscience tells you too to reassess 1 and 2. None of these alternatives are advocated for, and in favor of a vaccine whose long term effects have not been studied and whose antibodies wane after 6 months. I don't hear of any check your antibody campaigns.

 

[5demayo]

The effort to study the durability and duration of acquired immunity after infection and compare it to immunity provided by vaccination is ongoing. Its unfair to think that just because you haven't heard about it that there aren't groups of scientists all over the world studying that very thing. The research takes time and its something we will have to wait for.

There is one study so far regarding estimates on duration of immunity after infection. I posted it yesterday, its worth a read. Studies about vaccines are ongoing as well. They have shown that vaccines are effective at protecting individuals from sickness and hospitalization and death for at least six months. More time will be needed to find out how long the vaccine will last, but the only thing that is important is we know that they work and they save lives. You have to pay attention to the science instead of listening to what the media says. Science can be objective. The media isn't the same.

mRNA vaccines have been studied for a very long time. The technology is not as "new" as you are suggesting. You are right there is no way to prove there aren't long term health risks until everyone is fine in 3 years or whatever your timeframe is, but the likelihood of significant adverse effects is very low. We know this. The thing that we can create is immunity, so we created immunity instead of allowing people to die. It is extremely unfair of anyone to criticize that process which has been around for a long time.

It's interesting how you say in one sentence "it is likely" and in the next sentence you say "we know". Are you that unaware of your bias? Over the course of human history there have been plagues that have wiped out 20% of the population and as a species humans have endured. Also, what was the death rate for Covid for those that didn't have underlying conditions like heart disease, obesity, or diabetes? So, I should get vaccinated so people can keep drinking high fructose corn syrup and eating Big Macs? Is that what you are telling us? Or are you telling me we should love thy neighbor and at the same time kill babies in the womb? Or is it that we should get jabbed every 6 months because it is easier to keep a record of the event vs. trusting people to monitor their own health? Which reasons are your reasons?

 

[5demayo]

Google plant false story with Washington post.

If you think Google or the Washington Post, which is owned by Amazon are trustworthy news sources then there isn't much worth debating here. Next thing you will tell me is Facebook is good for self esteem.

 

[pitter76]

I'm not sure I follow

Already have booster and flu shot.

 

[Dhersh]

If you think Google or the Washington Post, which is owned by Amazon are trustworthy news sources then there isn't much worth debating here. Next thing you will tell me is Facebook is good for self esteem.

Says the guy who finds his news on YouTube. YouTube is owned by Google. Moreover, the platform admitted that they try to sell people on conspiracy videos. You got duped.

 

[Dhersh]

It's interesting how you say in one sentence "it is likely" and in the next sentence you say "we know". Are you that unaware of your bias? Over the course of human history there have been plagues that have wiped out 20% of the population and as a species humans have endured. Also, what was the death rate for Covid for those that didn't have underlying conditions like heart disease, obesity, or diabetes? So, I should get vaccinated so people can keep drinking high fructose corn syrup and eating Big Macs? Is that what you are telling us? Or are you telling me we should love thy neighbor and at the same time kill babies in the womb? Or is it that we should get jabbed every 6 months because it is easier to keep a record of the event vs. trusting people to monitor their own health? Which reasons are your reasons?

Uhhh.. yeah I am aware of my own bias. I work for Pfizer and I'm pro vaccine. I support people's individual rights to not get vaccinated. I also think they are wrong to decide to do that on a lot of levels. Those are some of my biases. I'm the one man enough to admit that bias.

Anyway its good to have the ability to be self aware. I mean did you really think you were going to turn that around on me after I brought up biases?

 

[PopsNole]

Uhhh.. yeah I am aware of my own bias. I work for Pfizer and I'm pro vaccine. I support people's individual rights to not get vaccinated. I also think they are wrong to decide to do that on a lot of levels. Those are some of my biases. I'm the one man enough to admit that bias.

Anyway its good to have the ability to be self aware. I mean did you really think you were going to turn that around on me after I brought up biases?

We shouldn't prevent pandemics now because thousands of years ago not every human died during a different pandemic. That's quite a rationalization. I assume those with these arguments yearn for the days when you could put 2 year old in the back seat with no car seat because that's government control and not every toddler died in a car wreck back then. I'm also not sure what high fructose corn syrup have to do with vaccines. I assume the argument is that because we don't prevent people from doing literally everything unhealthy we shouldn't make people get a vaccine. However, this also ignores the fact that obesity is not contagious.

 

[GbrNole]

However, this also ignores the fact that obesity is not contagious.

the WHO would disagree with that.

A social contagious model of the obesity epidemic - PubMed

Obesity has been recognized as a global epidemic by WHO, followed by many empirical evidences to prove its infectiousness. However, the inter-person spreading dynamics of obesity are seldom studied. A distinguishing feature of the obesity epidemic is that it is driven by a social contagion...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Dhersh]

the WHO would disagree with that.

A social contagious model of the obesity epidemic - PubMed

Obesity has been recognized as a global epidemic by WHO, followed by many empirical evidences to prove its infectiousness. However, the inter-person spreading dynamics of obesity are seldom studied. A distinguishing feature of the obesity epidemic is that it is driven by a social contagion...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Lmao a "social contagion process" that's an interesting concept. I think Pops meant the more traditional idea of physical contagion.

 

[GbrNole]

Lmao a "social contagion process" that's an interesting concept. I think Pops meant the more traditional idea of physical contagion.

i know 🤣

i would never consider obesity to be contagious in the active sense but it somewhat has merit in the passive sense. there was an itch to be scratched there and the WHO came through in the clutch! lol

 

[5demayo]

We shouldn't prevent pandemics now because thousands of years ago not every human died during a different pandemic. That's quite a rationalization. I assume those with these arguments yearn for the days when you could put 2 year old in the back seat with no car seat because that's government control and not every toddler died in a car wreck back then. I'm also not sure what abortion or high fructose corn syrup have to do with vaccines. I assume the argument is that because we don't prevent people from doing literally everything unhealthy we shouldn't make people get a vaccine. However, this also ignores the fact that obesity is not contagious.

Obesity isn't contagious but the healthy are penalized. That is my point.

 

[PopsNole]

Obesity isn't contagious but the healthy are penalized. That is my point.

Healthy are penalized how because of obesity?

 

[SteveT1]

Just so I understand your approach: we should all have just waited to get the virus (hope we don't die) and then by herd immunity we beat this thing? Should we have not tried to save some of the population by finding a way to prevent them from dying if they are not lucky enough to survive? I not advocating vaccining(?) everyone especially those who were lucky enough to have gotten the virus and survived. Just trying to understand your big picture view.

There are other ways to combat covid. Some discussion of treatments and what to monitor would be useful rather than telling everyone “we can only stop it if you get the vaccine,” because that’s just not true.

 

[FSUDoles]

Healthy are penalized how because of obesity?

I’m guessing higher health care costs for all to subsidize their health issues.

 

[ChiefWB]

There are other ways to combat covid. Some discussion of treatments and what to monitor would be useful rather than telling everyone “we can only stop it if you get the vaccine,” because that’s just not true.

Absolutely there are other ways to combat Covid. Quarantines, social distancing, masks, testing. I’m going to go out in a limb and say that those things likely don’t appeal to the anti-pharma, anti-vaxx crowd either.

 

[GbrNole]

here's a link to real time meta analysis of the various drugs being used globally in the early and late treatment of covid. this list includes both remdesivir (late treatment) and the various monoclonal antibody treatments (early treatment).

COVID-19 early treatment: real-time analysis of 2,483 studies

COVID-19 early treatment: real-time analysis of 2,483 studies

c19early.com

 

[PopsNole]

Absolutely there are other ways to combat Covid. Quarantines, social distancing, masks, testing. I’m going to go out in a limb and say that those things likely don’t appeal to the anti-pharma, anti-vaxx crowd either.

Correct. They’re reasoning is no single one completely prevents the spread of Covid so it’s a waste of time to do anything.

 

[AllNoles]

Natural immunity does not last forever necessarily. If you got Covid in March of 2020 you likely need a booster vaccination hence every single study that says natural immunity is better also saying that those with natural immunity that also got the vaccine were by far the least likely to suffer another infection.

It's not one or the other. If you've recently had Covid you're likely good for quite some time barring a new variant. If you had Covid a year ago or so data says to go get the vaccine.

Yeah. I’m done with the shots. One was enough.

 

[5demayo]

Healthy are penalized how because of obesity?

Look at the cost of healthcare...

 

[SteveT1]

Absolutely there are other ways to combat Covid. Quarantines, social distancing, masks, testing. I’m going to go out in a limb and say that those things likely don’t appeal to the anti-pharma, anti-vaxx crowd either.

Masking doesn’t work. Nor do lockdowns. Social distancing isn’t feasible. If you have covid, i think you’re detestable if you go out in public.
Obviously some therapeutics work. Steroids work. Why not discuss that, rather than a smartass comment? I wasn’t knocking the vaccine, chief. God forbid.

 

[SteveT1]

Correct. They’re reasoning is no single one completely prevents the spread of Covid so it’s a waste of time to do anything.

This is stupid and misses the point. Get with it pops

 

[ChiefWB]

Masking doesn’t work. Nor do lockdowns. Social distancing isn’t feasible. If you have covid, i think you’re detestable if you go out in public.
Obviously some therapeutics work. Steroids work. Why not discuss that, rather than a smartass comment? I wasn’t knocking the vaccine, chief. God forbid.

I was agreeing with you. There are other ways. However your response is over the top.

 

[SteveT1]

I was agreeing with you. There are other ways. However your response is over the top.

You made a smartass comment, not me. Your other options were nonsensical and show you’re really an antagonist parading as a champion of modern science. By all means continue to mask outdoors and driving alone.

 

[ChiefWB]

By all means continue to mask outdoors and driving alone.

Thanks for making this simple. Best of luck to you and yours.

 

[SteveT1]

Thanks for making this simple. Best of luck to you and yours.

We’re good. Thanks.

 

[Random_John]

Thanks for sharing. I didn’t read it all and not super thoroughly but one thing that was notable to me was symptomatic vaxxed patients have as high a viral load as unvaxxed thus likely would be as contagious. They did speculate that it could be for a much shorter period of time which makes sense.

I got my 2nd dose in mid January so if they recommend getting a booster in Sept I will. I have a feeling i may have had a break through case in late June when I was feeling crappy for about 4 days. I assumed it was just a cold so never got tested but now I’m wondering.

I believe this will be the thing going forward. I have the vaccine (Pfizer) then last month I had about a 4 day cold. My fiancé has the vaccine (Moderna) and also got a cold. Of course we assumed the worst as she works with patients in a hospital. She got tested 3 times that week.... all negative.

I work from home and rarely go anywhere during the week and assumed I was in the same boat as her. I isolated for the week because, even if not Covid, no one needs that junk.

Going forward, I believe people will start treating Covid like a cold until the last second and have to go to the hospital. We see how that normally turns out for folks.

 

[GbrNole]

I believe this will be the thing going forward. I have the vaccine (Pfizer) then last month I had about a 4 day cold. My fiancé has the vaccine (Moderna) and also got a cold. Of course we assumed the worst as she works with patients in a hospital. She got tested 3 times that week.... all negative.

I work from home and rarely go anywhere during the week and assumed I was in the same boat as her. I isolated for the week because, even if not Covid, no one needs that junk.

Going forward, I believe people will start treating Covid like a cold until the last second and have to go to the hospital. We see how that normally turns out for folks.

I just go with the tried and true formula of respiratory illness plus fever over 101 = assume you could get pneumonia and die.

long story short, don’t sit at home with a respiratory illness and a fever. Go see your doctor.

 

[SteveT1]

here's a link to real time meta analysis of the various drugs being used globally in the early and late treatment of covid. this list includes both remdesivir (late treatment) and the various monoclonal antibody treatments (early treatment).

COVID-19 early treatment: real-time analysis of 2,483 studies

COVID-19 early treatment: real-time analysis of 2,483 studies

c19early.com

Fantastic. Thank you for sharing that.

 

[flmom777]

Just so I understand your approach: we should all have just waited to get the virus (hope we don't die) and then by herd immunity we beat this thing? Should we have not tried to save some of the population by finding a way to prevent them from dying if they are not lucky enough to survive? I not advocating vaccining(?) everyone especially those who were lucky enough to have gotten the virus and survived. Just trying to understand your big picture view.

The real issue is that those with natural
Immunity should not be forced to be vaccinated because they are already in effect vaccinated.,

 

[flmom777]

I would be more likely to be vaccinated if it wasn’t being mandated like it is. Fortunately for me mandates have no negative effect on me. I’m am retired so employment is not threatened. I have absolutely no desire to fly anywhere so those mandates aren’t a problem. My own principles require me to not financially support any company that’s would mandate vaccination in order to give them my money so once more their mandates are not effective in my getting vaccinated.

When government starts coercing people to be vaccinated with an unproven vaccine, then I will stand up and say no.

 

[ChiefWB]

When government starts coercing people to be vaccinated with an unproven vaccine, then I will stand up and say no.

Maybe you should consult your primary care physician. This isn’t that complicated.

 

[Dhersh]

Maybe you should consult your primary care physician. This isn’t that complicated.

I agree it is important not to politicize something like this.

 

[FSUDoles]

I agree it is important not to politicize something like this.

Got my booster at Publix yesterday, easy peasy, sore arm but feeling great.

 

[ChiefWB]

Got my booster at Publix yesterday, easy peasy, sore arm but feeling great.

Pfizer?

 

[Dhersh]

Pfizer?

Pfizer is the only approved booster atm