Updated CDC policy. No difference in treatment between vaccinated and unvaccinated.

FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor

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I’m still amused by the masks. See lots of people wearing them incorrectly, outside, while driving alone, etc. Do whatever you want, of course, but It’s interesting where and how some folks elect to wear them.

To me, the mask mandates were the craziest part of the whole epidemic, especially where a “mask” could be a flimsy piece of t-shirt cloth. Yet lots of people were adamant that such “protection” was mandatory. LOL.
 

fsufool

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I’m still amused by the masks. See lots of people wearing them incorrectly, outside, while driving alone, etc. Do whatever you want, of course, but It’s interesting where and how some folks elect to wear them.

To me, the mask mandates were the craziest part of the whole epidemic, especially where a “mask” could be a flimsy piece of t-shirt cloth. Yet lots of people were adamant that such “protection” was mandatory. LOL.
Don't get me started..........there have been books written about the "lack" of science on the mitigation of masks and the mandates being put in place with a surge happening right after.
 

FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor

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Don't get me started..........there have been books written about the "lack" of science on the mitigation of masks and the mandates being put in place with a surge happening right after.
Wifey sometimes works as a substitute teacher for 1st, 2nd and 3rd graders. When the mask insanity was going on, she saw these little angels TRADING and EXCHANGING masks, and otherwise consistently misusing them (as any sane person could easily predict and understand). And never mind the socialization implications of masking young kids, and the difficulty in effectively teaching those kids. Yet cetain folks "insisted" that the "mandate" apply to this segment. Absolute insanity.
 

FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor

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One wonders if it was a mix of terror and fear of the unknown in the early going, or a sinister exercise in forcing group control and behavior over a large group.
Those are not mutually exclusive, in my mind. I see people who appear to be GENUINELY terrified of this "thing." Then I see and hear empowered people (including those in the USA) talking about the "new world order," and, well, it makes you wonder whether something else is going on.
 

fsufool

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One wonders if it was a mix of terror and fear of the unknown in the early going, or a sinister exercise in forcing group control and behavior over a large group.
Terror and fear from folks that should have known better; scientists and doctors. But, they were threatened consistently with loss of status or even jobs so they didn't speak up to what they knew. I dislike everything Trump, but Atlas was trying to effect rationality into the process. The process of politicizing science and medicine had already started well before the pandemic, but this played right into it with devastating consequences.
 
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DFSNOLE

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The science evolved as more was learned but many have 20/20 hindsight when looking at what was done early.

People tend to forget Covid-19 was a Novel Coronavirus. Everything was new. Decisions were made using the information available at the time.
 

ChiefWB

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The science evolved as more was learned but many have 20/20 hindsight when looking at what was done early.

People tend to forget Covid-19 was a Novel Coronavirus. Everything was new. Decisions were made using the information available at the time.
We were woefully unprepared. And this isn’t unique to 🇺🇸 The ignorance was global.
 

GeddyLee09

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One wonders if it was a mix of terror and fear of the unknown in the early going, or a sinister exercise in forcing group control and behavior over a large group.
I think George Orwell wrote something like the best way to ensure absolute power is through absolute fear. I think the mask thing was a way to identify (mark) the believers and non believers as we know now and in the beginning that masks would be ineffective. The stupidity of some of the rules were almost comical. Then they wondered why people had issues with the rules.
 

GeddyLee09

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Terror and fear from folks that should have known better; scientists and doctors. But, they were threatened consistently with loss of status or even jobs so they didn't speak up to what they knew. I dislike everything Trump, but Atlas was trying to effect rationality into the process. The process of politicizing science and medicine had already started well before the pandemic, but this played right into it with devastating consequences.
This is the part that made things look off. The quickness that this was politicized was amazing almost planned. CNN pushing to call it a pandemic even before the CDC. Many medical professionals and scientists were threated and even fired for speaking up if their opinion didn't match the narrative. This was the scary part to me. The willingness to oppress opinions that didn't match the script lends to a larger issue.
 

DFSNOLE

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This is the part that made things look off. The quickness that this was politicized was amazing almost planned. CNN pushing to call it a pandemic even before the CDC. Many medical professionals and scientists were threated and even fired for speaking up if their opinion didn't match the narrative. This was the scary part to me. The willingness to oppress opinions that didn't match the script lends to a larger issue.
The country was already in a heightened political climate so expecting the pandemic to be different was a fool's errand. People dug their heels in and searched for opinions that matched their own preconceived biases regardless of the legitimacy of those opinions. I know several people who died because they listened to poor advice from people on "their team"
 
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GeddyLee09

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We were woefully unprepared. And this isn’t unique to 🇺🇸 The ignorance was global.
Seeing just how smart humans are its very difficult to believe that the entire human race had one big brain fart. All at once the entire planet turned collectively stupid. Maybe a perfect storm of ignorance in all the right places? Those in power only wanting to hear one version? That's what we need to find out. What was the root cause of that global ignorance.
 
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GeddyLee09

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The country was already in a heightened political climate so expecting the pandemic to be different was a fool's errand. People dug their heels in and searched for opinions that matched their own preconceived biases regardless of the legitimacy of those opinions. I know several people who died because they listened to poor advice from people on "their team"
I guess my expectation was that it would be a global health crisis not a political media circus. I quickly learned to seek out my own sources of data and ignore most media outlets that I would previously go to for facts. That's carried over to now. I almost never watch any news outlet especially the main US ones. CNN, FOX, MSNBC ect...
 

DFSNOLE

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I guess my expectation was that it would be a global health crisis not a political media circus. I quickly learned to seek out my own sources of data and ignore most media outlets that I would previously go to for facts. That's carried over to now. I almost never watch any news outlet especially the main US ones. CNN, FOX, MSNBC ect...
I don't believe it was the same political circus in other parts of the world as it was here. What I found to be true in too many cases is that even the people who sought out their own data did so to confirm what they wanted to believe was true and rejected anything that did not fall in line. America has always been polarized to a degree but I believe those polls are farther apart now than at any time in my life and I'm an old man.
 

GeddyLee09

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I don't believe it was the same political circus in other parts of the world as it was here. What I found to be true in too many cases is that even the people who sought out their own data did so to confirm what they wanted to believe was true and rejected anything that did not fall in line. America has always been polarized to a degree but I believe those polls are farther apart now than at any time in my life and I'm an old man.
I was overseas from the beginning of the pandemic until last year and it was the same. Not at full circus level but largely similar. The difference overseas is that they are conditioned to do as instructed and not to question. That level of control already exists. So the extra lever or two didn't cause much push back like in the US. The difference is the media, theirs reports more facts where ours reports opinion.
 
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fsufool

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I don't believe it was the same political circus in other parts of the world as it was here. What I found to be true in too many cases is that even the people who sought out their own data did so to confirm what they wanted to believe was true and rejected anything that did not fall in line. America has always been polarized to a degree but I believe those polls are farther apart now than at any time in my life and I'm an old man.
Fear is a great motivator. Germany, who most people think as a rationalized society, much more than USA and other places, was the same. Totally ignored the data as it came out. Fear overcomes rationality in humans. We have concrete evidence of that from fMRIs testing. Japan the same.
 

FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor

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I don't believe it was the same political circus in other parts of the world as it was here. What I found to be true in too many cases is that even the people who sought out their own data did so to confirm what they wanted to believe was true and rejected anything that did not fall in line. America has always been polarized to a degree but I believe those polls are farther apart now than at any time in my life and I'm an old man.
The erosion of any objective and reliable media drives much of the dissonance in the USA. News is now “slanted” any way you want it, and people subscribe to what they want to hear.

There is very little “straight news” out there that people can consistently rely upon. Almost everything is spun one way or another.
 

DFSNOLE

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The erosion of any objective and reliable media drives much of the dissonance in the USA. News is now “slanted” any way you want it, and people subscribe to what they want to hear.

There is very little “straight news” out there that people can consistently rely upon. Almost everything is spun one way or another.
There's no doubt about that. But that has led to even more tribalism. Face it, Americans are lazy and would rather not have to think critically about a difficult subject but instead have their opinion made for them and then constantly reinforced by their favorite media outlet.
 

DFSNOLE

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I was overseas from the beginning of the pandemic until last year and it was the same. Not at full circus level but largely similar. The difference overseas is that they are conditioned to do as instructed and not to question. That level of control already exists. So the extra lever or two didn't cause much push back like in the US. The difference is the media, theirs reports more facts where ours reports opinion.
Is that conditioning and control or is it a higher degree of trust placed on those put in the position to look out for the citizenship by those citizens?
 

GeddyLee09

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Is that conditioning and control or is it a higher degree of trust placed on those put in the position to look out for the citizenship by those citizens?
Its a little of both but I woudnt call it trust, maybe a duty to back what your leaders say. The people don't trust their leaders any more than we do. However, its frowned upon to question authority in any way or to protest what the government does. This is something that's built into the culture through the type of society it is. At least that's what it seemed to me from observation and discussions with friends. That's in Germany but things are very different depending what border you cross.
 

GeddyLee09

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There's no doubt about that. But that has led to even more tribalism. Face it, Americans are lazy and would rather not have to think critically about a difficult subject but instead have their opinion made for them and then constantly reinforced by their favorite media outlet.
My glass half full side says I agree. My pessimistic side says its a degree of stupidity as well which is more troubling.
 
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goldmom

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My glass half full side says I agree. My pessimistic side says its a degree of stupidity as well which is more troubling.
Accept that a sizable portion of the populace lives in a different “space” than some of us. They have a small structured box and have to fight just to exist within that arena of life. When forced to look outside that space because of an unfamiliar situation or event, they can be vulnerable to the voices that speak loudest or those which offer the sound they find most comfortable. They choose that second option because it is easier and reinforces what they want to believe.

Dr. Dye used to remind his Government students that we are a uniquely privileged citizenry and thus we are obligated as citizens to seek multiple sources of knowledge about issues or situations before making up our minds - if we want to preserve what we have.
If confronted with facts oppositional to our beliefs it creates a level of discomfort, because it may then lead to doubts about many of our own long held stances on a wide range of topics.
There’s a saying that comes to mind - “My mind is made up, so don’t confuse me with the facts”. 😉

Bottom line for me is that when the “new” booster vaccine is available in September I will get it but I have no illusions that it will prevent me from getting anything but a milder case of Covid.
Just like my flu shot.
 
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GeddyLee09

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Accept that a sizable portion of the populace lives in a different “space” than some of us. They have a small structured box and have to fight just to exist within that arena of life. When forced to look outside that space because of an unfamiliar situation or event, they can be vulnerable to the voices that speak loudest or those which offer the sound they find most comfortable. They choose that second option because it is easier and reinforces what they want to believe.

Dr. Dye used to remind his Government students that we are a uniquely privileged citizenry and thus we are obligated as citizens to seek multiple sources of knowledge about issues or situations before making up our minds - if we want to preserve what we have.
If confronted with facts oppositional to our beliefs it creates a level of discomfort, because it may then lead to doubts about many of our own long held stances on a wide range of topics.
There’s a saying that comes to mind - “My mind is made up, so don’t confuse me with the facts”. 😉

Bottom line for me is that when the “new” booster vaccine is available in September I will get it but I have no illusions that it will prevent me from getting anything but a milder case of Covid.
Just like my flu shot.
Agreed. And good points. I got the last boosters because work and travel required it although I didn't believe it would do much one way or another. Now as more information comes out about vaccines I'm not sure if I would do it again with the new booster. Will have to see how things play out.
 
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fsufool

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Agreed. And good points. I got the last boosters because work and travel required it although I didn't believe it would do much one way or another. Now as more information comes out about vaccines I'm not sure if I would do it again with the new booster. Will have to see how things play out.
Individual choice...........just as it always should have been.
FYI, pay attention to the data, because there is no current evidence that boosters elevate protection against hospitalizations and death and we know they only offer very temporary respite from infections.
 

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Individual choice...........just as it always should have been.
FYI, pay attention to the data, because there is no current evidence that boosters elevate protection against hospitalizations and death and we know they only offer very temporary respite from infections.
Yep. I haven't gotten any and won't. Wife never got any shots. We are fine. Pandy is over.
 
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ChiefWB

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Individual choice...........just as it always should have been.
FYI, pay attention to the data, because there is no current evidence that boosters elevate protection against hospitalizations and death and we know they only offer very temporary respite from infections.
Can you please share your data?
 

fsufool

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Can you please share your data?
A little bit of hyperbole, but the 4th shot has elicited some interesting science on immunity of COVID.



This science is frankly beyond my technical knowledge and as all science is ever changing. I had to have a friend who is a virologist to explain it to me. It has to do with immune imprinting.

"It also concurs with observations that mRNA vaccination carrying the B.1.1.529 (Omicron) spike sequence (Omicron third-dose after ancestral sequence prime and boost) offers no protective advantage"

"Although it is known that cross-reactive antibody recognition is compromised by the mutations in B.1.1.529 (Omicron), it was surprising that this was so profoundly exacerbated by differential imprinting in those who were previously infected by either Wuhan Hu-1 or B.1.1.7 (Alpha). This adds an important dimension to global control of B.1.1.529 (Omicron) in light of the impact B.1.1.7 (Alpha) has had on the global pandemic—by May 2021, B.1.1.7 (Alpha) accounted for 67% of all cases across 149 countries (30). That previous SARS-CoV-2 infection history can imprint such a profound, negative impact on subsequent protective immunity is an unexpected consequence of COVID-19"
 
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fsufool

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This science is frankly beyond my technical knowledge and as all science is ever changing. I had to have a friend who is a virologist to explain it to me. It has to do with viral imprinting.

"It also concurs with observations that mRNA vaccination carrying the B.1.1.529 (Omicron) spike sequence (Omicron third-dose after ancestral sequence prime and boost) offers no protective advantage"

"Although it is known that cross-reactive antibody recognition is compromised by the mutations in B.1.1.529 (Omicron), it was surprising that this was so profoundly exacerbated by differential imprinting in those who were previously infected by either Wuhan Hu-1 or B.1.1.7 (Alpha). This adds an important dimension to global control of B.1.1.529 (Omicron) in light of the impact B.1.1.7 (Alpha) has had on the global pandemic—by May 2021, B.1.1.7 (Alpha) accounted for 67% of all cases across 149 countries (30). That previous SARS-CoV-2 infection history can imprint such a profound, negative impact on subsequent protective immunity is an unexpected consequence of COVID-19"
While many of us will be able to stage an immune response to SARS-CoV-2 that we would not have been able to 2 years or even 1 year ago, the individual response may vary considerably between people, depending on the nature of previous exposure.

This phenomenon is known as immune imprinting, Prof. Danny Altmann, professor of immunology at Imperial College London explained to Medical News Today in an interview:

“All those things push and pull your immune repertoire, your antibodies and things in different directions, and make you respond differently to the next vaccine that comes along […] So that’s what’s called immune imprinting.”
 
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surfnole

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A random drive by Post.

1. Sweden had no lockdowns their death rate from covid was .8% us was 1.1%. this is from John Hopkins and likely from the cdc. Proof that lockdowns were bs? And the Draconian measures of people losing their jobs despite being first responders. No excuse for that. Canada went so far as to confiscate truckers assets licenses and everything with no due process.

2. Vaccinating children there is no scientific reason for it in fact it's been banned in some countries.

3. . Monkey pox was the next crisis propagated by the press. And the government. Very difficult to find the facts that maybe 99% of those who caught it were gay? Participating in sexual activities? No you can't mention those facts just paint a whole broad brush. Supposedly there's a vaccine out

4. I met with a priest. Last week. He is in town for a couple of months. He is not been in the US for a few years and runs a school and orphanage in Uganda with a couple of hundred students. Nobody he knows caught covid and he's heard stories second hand about a cure that they use created from herbs. Cost $18 in the US and $9 in uganda. Just a story I don't have facts to back it up. Perhaps the low rate of covid in Uganda is because the population age is much lower in Africa than the rest of the world.

5. Clearly there's government manipulation of our covid policies likely propagated by many sources including Pfizer and moderna.

6. Natural immunity was completely discounted by the medical community and those who proposed such a thing were banned from Twitter etc. Threatened with losing their medical license. Now natural immunity, from previously having covid, is fine. Those on this board have said well we have different strains now and that's true but the Delta variant is probably still out there as well.

 

FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor

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A random drive by Post.

1. Sweden had no lockdowns their death rate from covid was .8% us was 1.1%. this is from John Hopkins and likely from the cdc. Proof that lockdowns were bs? And the Draconian measures of people losing their jobs despite being first responders. No excuse for that. Canada went so far as to confiscate truckers assets licenses and everything with no due process.

2. Vaccinating children there is no scientific reason for it in fact it's been banned in some countries.

3. . Monkey pox was the next crisis propagated by the press. And the government. Very difficult to find the facts that maybe 99% of those who caught it were gay? Participating in sexual activities? No you can't mention those facts just paint a whole broad brush. Supposedly there's a vaccine out

4. I met with a priest. Last week. He is in town for a couple of months. He is not been in the US for a few years and runs a school and orphanage in Uganda with a couple of hundred students. Nobody he knows caught covid and he's heard stories second hand about a cure that they use created from herbs. Cost $18 in the US and $9 in uganda. Just a story I don't have facts to back it up. Perhaps the low rate of covid in Uganda is because the population age is much lower in Africa than the rest of the world.

5. Clearly there's government manipulation of our covid policies likely propagated by many sources including Pfizer and moderna.

6. Natural immunity was completely discounted by the medical community and those who proposed such a thing were banned from Twitter etc. Threatened with losing their medical license. Now natural immunity, from previously having covid, is fine. Those on this board have said well we have different strains now and that's true but the Delta variant is probably still out there as well.

Interesting to hear teachers now talking about how kids were devastated by essentially missing two years of school (i.e., the on-line thing was completely ineffective, irrespective of the self-serving blather we heard at the time).

Absenteeism is still at an all-time high, as neither the kids nor their families regard "being there" as essential. Mental problems, including teen suicides, are skyrocketing. Teachers are quitting or retiring in record numbers, leaving a huge shortage in the educational workplace.

Not sure if we can ever quantify the impacts of "this," but the shut-downs of schools will be felt for decades to come.
 

fsufool

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A random drive by Post.

1. Sweden had no lockdowns their death rate from covid was .8% us was 1.1%. this is from John Hopkins and likely from the cdc. Proof that lockdowns were bs? And the Draconian measures of people losing their jobs despite being first responders. No excuse for that. Canada went so far as to confiscate truckers assets licenses and everything with no due process.

2. Vaccinating children there is no scientific reason for it in fact it's been banned in some countries.

3. . Monkey pox was the next crisis propagated by the press. And the government. Very difficult to find the facts that maybe 99% of those who caught it were gay? Participating in sexual activities? No you can't mention those facts just paint a whole broad brush. Supposedly there's a vaccine out

4. I met with a priest. Last week. He is in town for a couple of months. He is not been in the US for a few years and runs a school and orphanage in Uganda with a couple of hundred students. Nobody he knows caught covid and he's heard stories second hand about a cure that they use created from herbs. Cost $18 in the US and $9 in uganda. Just a story I don't have facts to back it up. Perhaps the low rate of covid in Uganda is because the population age is much lower in Africa than the rest of the world.

5. Clearly there's government manipulation of our covid policies likely propagated by many sources including Pfizer and moderna.

6. Natural immunity was completely discounted by the medical community and those who proposed such a thing were banned from Twitter etc. Threatened with losing their medical license. Now natural immunity, from previously having covid, is fine. Those on this board have said well we have different strains now and that's true but the Delta variant is probably still out there as well.

You hit on a lot of the points I have been making for 2 years now. Nice post.
 

fsufool

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Interesting to hear teachers now talking about how kids were devastated by essentially missing two years of school (i.e., the on-line thing was completely ineffective, irrespective of the self-serving blather we heard at the time).

Absenteeism is still at an all-time high, as neither the kids nor their families regard "being there" as essential. Mental problems, including teen suicides, are skyrocketing. Teachers are quitting or retiring in record numbers, leaving a huge shortage in the educational workplace.

Not sure if we can ever quantify the impacts of "this," but the shut-downs of schools will be felt for decades to come.
Good post, but teen suicides aren't skyrocketing. Depression/Anxiety of teens has been going up for over a decade, but did spike during the school shutdowns. Hard to separate multiple issues. And not surprisingly not a lot of research out there. But, the main issues are 1. remote schooling 2. masks 3. generalized lost of hope for the future.

Each age group of children has been affected by those three issues but differently. Masks have caused language acquisition issues in the very young. Loss of hope has caused increased depression among teenagers and the 7-18 age group suffered from remote schooling.

As some have pointed out, no one thought to think about these issues before because it you told them we would mask 2 year olds and above for multiple years, go remote schooling for up to 2 years and spend several years making people dying from a virus the most important thing that the media and doctors and teachers talk about, people would think you were crazy. And we were.
 

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