Updated CDC policy. No difference in treatment between vaccinated and unvaccinated.

surfnole

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You hit on a lot of the points I have been making for 2 years now. Nice post.

Many have been making these points and I probably learned some here. It is only now that people are able to question the official talking points.

On another note nobody questioned the downside and financial cost of the policies/lockdown.

1) Own a small business, shut down. Walmart, Costco, Target..no problems stay open. Lost businesses and livelihood.

2) Mental Health Effects. Addictions went up. What are some going to do when they are locked inside all day? What are they going to do when they can't attend their support meetings? What is the mental impact of the elderly who are unable to have visitors for over a year? Churches quit meeting although a few brave pastors like John McCarthur told the government FU.

3) "no one thought to think about these issues before because it you told them we would mask 2 year olds". I know what you meant. Many thought of these issues, but they had no voice, deleted from twitter and facebook, risk losing their jobs. China is the most egregarios perpetrator here. Xi Jinping promotoed a policy of zero tolerance and is unable to save face once establishing this policy. Multiple cities the size of New York locked down for weeks and months. Supply chain disruptions which are causing global companies to rethink their supply chains. I was in a Maza dealer a few weeks back and they had ZERO Mazda 3's in stock (equivalent car to Honda Civic). Due to the chip shortage, the available chips were being used only in high end cars. The salesman told me that a Mazda 3 was coming in a couple of days, but a guy from South Carolina had already purchased it and was flying to Florida to take delivery. There is a huge pent up demand for cars right now (myself included, my daugter also), but I am going to wait until some sense in prices.

The list goes on. Thankful I do not live in California.
 
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fsufool

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Many have been making these points and I probably learned some here. It is only now that people are able to question the official talking points.

On another note nobody questioned the downside and financial cost of the policies/lockdown.

1) Own a small business, shut down. Walmart, Costco, Target..no problems stay open. Lost businesses and livelihood.

2) Mental Health Effects. Addictions went up. What are some going to do when they are locked inside all day? What are they going to do when they can't attend their support meetings? What is the mental impact of the elderly who are unable to have visitors for over a year? Churches quit meeting although a few brave pastors like John McCarthur told the government FU.

3) "no one thought to think about these issues before because it you told them we would mask 2 year olds". I know what you meant. Many thought of these issues, but they had no voice, deleted from twitter and facebook, risk losing their jobs. China is the most egregarios perpetrator here. Xi Jinping promotoed a policy of zero tolerance and is unable to save face once establishing this policy. Multiple cities the size of New York locked down for weeks and months. Supply chain disruptions which are causing global companies to rethink their supply chains. I was in a Maza dealer a few weeks back and they had ZERO Mazda 3's in stock (equivalent car to Honda Civic). Due to the chip shortage, the available chips were being used only in high end cars. The salesman told me that a Mazda 3 was coming in a couple of days, but a guy from South Carolina had already purchased it and was flying to Florida to take delivery. There is a huge pent up demand for cars right now (myself included, my daugter also), but I am going to wait until some sense in prices.

The list goes on. Thankful I do not live in California.
When the Bush administration put into emergency management "shelter-at-home" (2008) for virus pandemics, the Epidemiologist community roundly criticized it as producing more harm than helping within their journals. Most thought a 2 week shelter at home was crazy...........no one imagined multiple months would be attempted.
 

GeddyLee09

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A random drive by Post.

1. Sweden had no lockdowns their death rate from covid was .8% us was 1.1%. this is from John Hopkins and likely from the cdc. Proof that lockdowns were bs? And the Draconian measures of people losing their jobs despite being first responders. No excuse for that. Canada went so far as to confiscate truckers assets licenses and everything with no due process.

2. Vaccinating children there is no scientific reason for it in fact it's been banned in some countries.

3. . Monkey pox was the next crisis propagated by the press. And the government. Very difficult to find the facts that maybe 99% of those who caught it were gay? Participating in sexual activities? No you can't mention those facts just paint a whole broad brush. Supposedly there's a vaccine out

4. I met with a priest. Last week. He is in town for a couple of months. He is not been in the US for a few years and runs a school and orphanage in Uganda with a couple of hundred students. Nobody he knows caught covid and he's heard stories second hand about a cure that they use created from herbs. Cost $18 in the US and $9 in uganda. Just a story I don't have facts to back it up. Perhaps the low rate of covid in Uganda is because the population age is much lower in Africa than the rest of the world.

5. Clearly there's government manipulation of our covid policies likely propagated by many sources including Pfizer and moderna.

6. Natural immunity was completely discounted by the medical community and those who proposed such a thing were banned from Twitter etc. Threatened with losing their medical license. Now natural immunity, from previously having covid, is fine. Those on this board have said well we have different strains now and that's true but the Delta variant is probably still out there as well.

Sweden had almost no measures at all. Masks, lockdowns ect... and they had 250k cases per 1M people and 1933 deaths per million people. Germany which had fairly draconian and extensive measures had 379k cases per million people and 1744 deaths. Austria and Portugal compare the same as well and both had very different degrees of containment measures.
 
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GeddyLee09

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Many have been making these points and I probably learned some here. It is only now that people are able to question the official talking points.

On another note nobody questioned the downside and financial cost of the policies/lockdown.

1) Own a small business, shut down. Walmart, Costco, Target..no problems stay open. Lost businesses and livelihood.

2) Mental Health Effects. Addictions went up. What are some going to do when they are locked inside all day? What are they going to do when they can't attend their support meetings? What is the mental impact of the elderly who are unable to have visitors for over a year? Churches quit meeting although a few brave pastors like John McCarthur told the government FU.

3) "no one thought to think about these issues before because it you told them we would mask 2 year olds". I know what you meant. Many thought of these issues, but they had no voice, deleted from twitter and facebook, risk losing their jobs. China is the most egregarios perpetrator here. Xi Jinping promotoed a policy of zero tolerance and is unable to save face once establishing this policy. Multiple cities the size of New York locked down for weeks and months. Supply chain disruptions which are causing global companies to rethink their supply chains. I was in a Maza dealer a few weeks back and they had ZERO Mazda 3's in stock (equivalent car to Honda Civic). Due to the chip shortage, the available chips were being used only in high end cars. The salesman told me that a Mazda 3 was coming in a couple of days, but a guy from South Carolina had already purchased it and was flying to Florida to take delivery. There is a huge pent up demand for cars right now (myself included, my daugter also), but I am going to wait until some sense in prices.

The list goes on. Thankful I do not live in California.
Is there a shortage on EV's as well?
 

DFSNOLE

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A random drive by Post.

1. Sweden had no lockdowns their death rate from covid was .8% us was 1.1%. this is from John Hopkins and likely from the cdc. Proof that lockdowns were bs? And the Draconian measures of people losing their jobs despite being first responders. No excuse for that. Canada went so far as to confiscate truckers assets licenses and everything with no due process.
Australia had probably the most severe mitigation efforts and their rate was 0.1%. Proof lockdowns were indeed effective? Cherry picking stats is not a good way to promote a position.
 
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GeddyLee09

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Australia had probably the most severe mitigation efforts and their rate was .01%. Proof lockdowns were indeed effective? Cherry picking stats is not a good way to promote a position.
Australia had 382k cases per 1M population which was higher than the US and Sweden. However, deaths were 500 per 1M which is lower than most places other than some African countries. So did lockdowns and masks slow the spread? Do masks and lockdowns affect the death rate of a virus?
 

DFSNOLE

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Australia had 382k cases per 1M population which was higher than the US and Sweden. However, deaths were 500 per 1M which is lower than most places other than some African countries. So did lockdowns and masks slow the spread? Do masks and lockdowns affect the death rate of a virus?
If the goal was to keep people alive, they did an outstanding job. 540 deaths per million compared to 3169 for the US. Lockdowns and masks could have limited the level of exposure in close contact situations.
 
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GeddyLee09

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If the goal was to keep people alive, they did an outstanding job. 540 deaths per million compared to 3169 for the US. Lockdowns and masks could have limited the level of exposure in close contact situations.
Could be. I would think with a case rate like that there were some other factors involved that kept the death rate so low compared to other countries. Germany had a comparable case rate but had deaths 3 times that of Australia. Its hard to tell with the US numbers as there was no universal masking and lockdowns like in other countries. It would be interesting to see true numbers from China as they were in fairly severe lockdowns.
 

fsufool

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Australia had probably the most severe mitigation efforts and their rate was 0.1%. Proof lockdowns were indeed effective? Cherry picking stats is not a good way to promote a position.
Fun with statistics............You have to look when the first cases were found in a country and when the mitigation went on. Also you have to understand how porous the borders are. Island nations had the ability to shut themselves off that countries that border others don't. Australia has 382,830 cases per million, which isn't low, but only 536 per million deaths which is. But, by being an island far away from the genesis and shutting down the borders completely, they were able to delay Covid infections long enough to get the vaccination dispersed. This kept their death rate down, but did not stop the infections once Covid got a foothold. In other words, they got lucky by geography and the speed at which the vaccination was developed. But, it cost them. Economically they are struggling, their kids are struggling, their adults are struggling. The government had a series of cash benefits to citizens that dwarfs what the USA government did. They have a history of more generous social spending than the USA, so there was no opposition to these payments.
Japan would be another island nation that falls in this category. They only had 147000 per million infections and 310 deaths per million.

Statistics are only good if you understand the context behind them.
 

surfnole

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Taken to its logical extreme, lockdowns are 100% effective in stopping the spread. Simply lock every citizen of the globe in a room for a month and "somehow" sterilize the air, food etc for each one, and Covid would disappear...well may be able to lay dormant in somebody, possibly previously infected, and infect somebody else after a month....But, lockdowns at what cost both in deaths, mental health, livelihood ...elsewhere
 

DFSNOLE

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Fun with statistics............You have to look when the first cases were found in a country and when the mitigation went on. Also you have to understand how porous the borders are. Island nations had the ability to shut themselves off that countries that border others don't. Australia has 382,830 cases per million, which isn't low, but only 536 per million deaths which is. But, by being an island far away from the genesis and shutting down the borders completely, they were able to delay Covid infections long enough to get the vaccination dispersed. This kept their death rate down, but did not stop the infections once Covid got a foothold. In other words, they got lucky by geography and the speed at which the vaccination was developed. But, it cost them. Economically they are struggling, their kids are struggling, their adults are struggling. The government had a series of cash benefits to citizens that dwarfs what the USA government did. They have a history of more generous social spending than the USA, so there was no opposition to these payments.
Japan would be another island nation that falls in this category. They only had 147000 per million infections and 310 deaths per million.

Statistics are only good if you understand the context behind them.

Mark Twain has once again been proven wise.

1*Oak1DblnxyW7PUS7R75cDA.png
 
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FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor

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Fun with statistics............You have to look when the first cases were found in a country and when the mitigation went on. Also you have to understand how porous the borders are. Island nations had the ability to shut themselves off that countries that border others don't. Australia has 382,830 cases per million, which isn't low, but only 536 per million deaths which is. But, by being an island far away from the genesis and shutting down the borders completely, they were able to delay Covid infections long enough to get the vaccination dispersed. This kept their death rate down, but did not stop the infections once Covid got a foothold. In other words, they got lucky by geography and the speed at which the vaccination was developed. But, it cost them. Economically they are struggling, their kids are struggling, their adults are struggling. The government had a series of cash benefits to citizens that dwarfs what the USA government did. They have a history of more generous social spending than the USA, so there was no opposition to these payments.
Japan would be another island nation that falls in this category. They only had 147000 per million infections and 310 deaths per million.

Statistics are only good if you understand the context behind them.
You mention borders. I am so glad the USA aggressively sealed its southern border during COVID-19 to curb the spread of the insidious virus. I mean, the virus was just too dangerous to take a chance that some generally unhealthy refugee might be a carrier. Oh, wait…..

It was nonsense like this, and making 2-3-4 year old children wear masks, that underscored the absurdity of the USA’s approach.
 

fsufool

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You mention borders. I am so glad the USA aggressively sealed its southern border during COVID-19 to curb the spread of the insidious virus. I mean, the virus was just too dangerous to take a chance that some generally unhealthy refugee might be a carrier. Oh, wait…..

It was nonsense like this, and making 2-3-4 year old children wear masks, that underscored the absurdity of the USA’s approach.
I will remind folks that sealing a 2000 mile border, is impossible, same as stopping a respiratory virus from spreading! We can't even stop Cubans from illegal entry with 90 miles of ocean between us or drugs from entry, etc.
 

fsufool

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Sealing the entry points would be a good start.
We could shut illegal entry to a trickle by simply using 1/10th of the money to enforce on employers the illegal employment of these people. They come because they are fleeing terrible conditions and expect to have a better life. If they can't find work in the USA, they will stop coming. It's that simple. You will never be able to enforce a 2000 mile border, its a wack a mole situation.
 

GeddyLee09

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We could shut illegal entry to a trickle by simply using 1/10th of the money to enforce on employers the illegal employment of these people. They come because they are fleeing terrible conditions and expect to have a better life. If they can't find work in the USA, they will stop coming. It's that simple. You will never be able to enforce a 2000 mile border, its a wack a mole situation.
What I meant was seal the actual crossings where legal people enter. Even during the pandemic many were just walking through the turn styles and being let into the country.

Yes cutting off the supply of work would stop the flood but that's not going to happen either. Point was that during the pandemic we closed off certain things but left the tap wide open in other areas.
 

FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor

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I will remind folks that sealing a 2000 mile border, is impossible, same as stopping a respiratory virus from spreading! We can't even stop Cubans from illegal entry with 90 miles of ocean between us or drugs from entry, etc.
Did we even try? Pretty sure we know exactly where the bulk of the crossings take place.
 
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FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor

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What I meant was seal the actual crossings where legal people enter. Even during the pandemic many were just walking through the turn styles and being let into the country.

Yes cutting off the supply of work would stop the flood but that's not going to happen either. Point was that during the pandemic we closed off certain things but left the tap wide open in other areas.
^^^^AMERICAN CITIZENS were locked down, but completely unknown immigrants were given a green light. Brilliant.
 
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fsufool

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Heretic: 1. a person who differs in opinion from established religious dogma (see DOGMA sense 2)especially : a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church who refuses to acknowledge or accept a revealed truth

I think this is revealing................LOL

And yes I know that there is another definition:
2. one who differs in opinion from an accepted belief or doctrine : NONCONFORMIST

But, this doesn't really apply as I have supplied now two journal articles demonstrating the point. FYI, since that Nature article was posted, the authors responding to criticism have issued an update with makes the excess cases in the 16-40 age group from the vaccination grow significantly. Don't know how to paste a pdf or a chart, but it is there.

Perhaps this link works:

The second Moderna vaccination really did a number of young males and is why the rest of the world wouldn't give it. And yes no one died, but this is the opposite of doing no harm.
 

ChiefWB

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And such correlation, too. 😏
Likely more relevant than the effects of rap music on fans not even in the stadium BEFORE the kickoff of a rain soaked football game. But we saw how that went. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🎵🎵🎵🎵🎵🎵🎤🎤🎤🎤
 

FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor

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And such correlation, too. 😏
The same "educators" who now claim to be "shocked" by the academic decline are the same folks who AGGRESSIVELY ADVOCATED for the lock-downs in the first place. Remember all of the pearl-clutching by the education unions about being "scared" to return to the classroom?? Now that same group -- which got exactly what it wanted in 2020 and 2021 -- wants more funding and huge pay raises to compensate for the problems they caused or contributed to.

LOL.
 
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FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor

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Lots of people died too. 🤦‍♂️ Shocking!
Of the people who died, how many of them would have lived 2-3-4-5 more years had Covid-19 never happened? A miniscule number of healthy/vibrant people -- with material future life expectancies -- actually died. Some, yes did, and that's truly sad. And it sucks if someone in "your circle" fell in that super-tiny statistic. But "some" healthy people die every year of the flu, bee stings, allergic reactions and other (random) causes. And that sucks too.

Yet we don't ruin our economy, and our education system, to "save" EVERYONE from random and infinitismally small risks. But we did just that for Covid-19. Was that smart, or worth it?
 

ChiefWB

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Of the people who died, how many of them would have lived 2-3-4-5 more years had Covid-19 never happened? A miniscule number of healthy/vibrant people -- with material future life expectancies -- actually died. Some, yes did, and that's truly sad. And it sucks if someone in "your circle" fell in that super-tiny statistic. But "some" healthy people die every year of the flu, bee stings, allergic reactions and other (random) causes. And that sucks too.

Yet we don't ruin our economy, and our education system, to "save" EVERYONE from random and infinitismally small risks. But we did just that for Covid-19. Was that smart, or worth it?
I can only speak personally but unless she succumbed to an freak accident, my healthy 40 year old (RN) sister in law would still be here. I have spoken to many who are in the same boat. This despite you claiming the opposite.
My take will always be that too many people worldwide died of this thing unnecessarily. Life is too valuable to be as flippant and dismissive as your take. And you and all the other Covid deniers aren’t going to change my view. And while I am glad that the virus only has financial ramifications for you personally, many more were hurt in a much more profound way.
in the future I think it is best if we don’t exchange thoughts on this. Your take is not one I respect or care about. Wasn’t when you were Johnnieholmesnole and isn’t today. Think it is best it is left at that.
 

FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor

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I can only speak personally but unless she succumbed to an freak accident, my healthy 40 year old (RN) sister in law would still be here. I have spoken to many who are in the same boat. This despite you claiming the opposite.
My take will always be that too many people worldwide died of this thing unnecessarily. Life is too valuable to be as flippant and dismissive as your take. And you and all the other Covid deniers aren’t going to change my view. And while I am glad that the virus only has financial ramifications for you personally, many more were hurt in a much more profound way.
in the future I think it is best if we don’t exchange thoughts on this. Your take is not one I respect or care about. Wasn’t when you were Johnnieholmesnole and isn’t today. Think it is best it is left at that.
I am sorry for your loss. And I realize your personal pain may not enable you to be objective.
But, in reality, your "group" of similarly-situated people is incredibly small. Again, that sucks for you -- and does not at all lessen your legitimiate pain -- but society cannot move forward by fixating on statistically tiny minorities.

On a macro/societal level, the U.S. approach to Covid-19 was a horrible trade-off. There will be huge social and economic implications for the next 30-40-50 years, possibly longer. I survived Covid-19 just fine, physically and financially. I am not at all worried about me....I am worried about all of the kids and grandkids (and maybe beyond) who will suffer the brunt of some REALLY bad policy decisions that killed an already-bad education system and exacerbated the "no need to work" mindset.

I am sorry that you continue to be hurt. Please put me on ignore if you wish....think of it as wearing a cloth mask. Have a nice evening.
 
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goldmom

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Likely more relevant than the effects of rap music on fans not even in the stadium BEFORE the kickoff of a rain soaked football game. But we saw how that went. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🎵🎵🎵🎵🎵🎵🎤🎤🎤🎤
You’re trying too hard. You seem like a nice fellow but that’s a scha-wing and a miss, Chief. 😉
 

ChiefWB

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You’re trying too hard. You seem like a nice fellow but that’s a scha-wing and a miss, Chief. 😉
Back to the topic. My point was there were multiple costs to the whole pandemic. Many we are experiencing or will soon be experiencing. Deaths being the biggest one followed by severe illness and so on. Seems those are really mentioned (or remembered) anymore. That’s the correlation and I am sorry you didn’t see my point. But it’s where we need to be prepared at a much higher level. Kids will bounce back. The millions of souls lost aren’t coming back.
And for the record, the rap music thread might be one of the most hilarious (unintentionally) threads on the new site. Pure comedy.
 

goldmom

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Back to the topic. My point was there were multiple costs to the whole pandemic. Many we are experiencing or will soon be experiencing. Deaths being the biggest one followed by severe illness and so on. Seems those are really mentioned (or remembered) anymore. That’s the correlation and I am sorry you didn’t see my point. But it’s where we need to be prepared at a much higher level. Kids will bounce back. The millions of souls lost aren’t coming back.
And for the record, the rap music thread might be one of the most hilarious (unintentionally) threads on the new site. Pure comedy.
Then certainly you can offer that viewpoint - in the music thread.
And I’m very sorry for your loss of a loved one.
 

FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor

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Back to the topic. My point was there were multiple costs to the whole pandemic. Many we are experiencing or will soon be experiencing. Deaths being the biggest one followed by severe illness and so on. Seems those are really mentioned (or remembered) anymore. That’s the correlation and I am sorry you didn’t see my point. But it’s where we need to be prepared at a much higher level. Kids will bounce back. The millions of souls lost aren’t coming back.
And for the record, the rap music thread might be one of the most hilarious (unintentionally) threads on the new site. Pure comedy.
"Kids will bounce back." Not necessarily. Especially for the (massive) group that was already swimming upstream to start with. Skipping 2 years of meaningful educational and social direction for the at-risk population -- especially between ages 6 and 12 -- will haunt our society for decades. There is no window to "catch up," and certainly no encouragement or support structure for that to realistically happen. It's like we sprayed fertiziler on the next generation of socially-dependent people.
 

F4Gary

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Back to the topic. My point was there were multiple costs to the whole pandemic. Many we are experiencing or will soon be experiencing. Deaths being the biggest one followed by severe illness and so on. Seems those are really mentioned (or remembered) anymore. That’s the correlation and I am sorry you didn’t see my point. But it’s where we need to be prepared at a much higher level. Kids will bounce back. The millions of souls lost aren’t coming back.
And for the record, the rap music thread might be one of the most hilarious (unintentionally) threads on the new site. Pure comedy.
You're grasping...let it go.
 

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